tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6237514746199867099.post1260816497561893145..comments2023-06-10T16:19:02.304-04:00Comments on Rough Fractals: (Some) Men Are Real Buffoons.Stevenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16353954192152571397noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6237514746199867099.post-52776612134226864982009-06-17T06:53:52.197-04:002009-06-17T06:53:52.197-04:00RobS: I am still trying to figure out why you and ...RobS: I am still trying to figure out why you and I read GirlWorks rant so differently. You present good facts about the woes of men that are no doubt correct but that miss the point of what I see as, at its core, staking out a "we at the center of power are oppressed" position. Its like slave owners lamenting the expense burden of maintaing orderly plantations in the face of an uncertain tobacco market and resenting the free room and board that they have to give to their slaves. That may be an extreme interpretation but subtle sexism (or racism) is no less wrong by virtue of being less obvious.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16353954192152571397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6237514746199867099.post-84077940544376301172009-06-13T20:13:39.930-04:002009-06-13T20:13:39.930-04:00I guess I just saw a young woman offended by the u...I guess I just saw a young woman offended by the underlying us vs them mentality that she perceived as the impetus behind what the men were espousing. Not unlike the way anti immigrant groups disguise (and deny) their underlying bigotry. Maybe its just my temperment (see http://roughfractals.blogspot.com/2009/03/egg-vs-wall.html) that leads me to see it that way. <br /><br />Thanks for writing - great to hear from you. Hope you will continue to Read Rough Fractals and comment.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16353954192152571397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6237514746199867099.post-46841586640318298042009-06-13T15:36:26.656-04:002009-06-13T15:36:26.656-04:00I'm critical of Saltarelli's Men in Power ...I'm critical of Saltarelli's Men in Power group. In this NPR program he does not present a cohesive argument for why this group exists. The name is questionable and certainly serves as a nice target. <br /><br />But let's look at the bigger picture and look at a sample of some issues that men's advocacy groups seek to address in general:<br /><br />- 94% of people that die in the workplace are men.<br />- The most dangerous jobs are done by men.<br />- The majority of homeless are men.<br />- Women earn far more bachelor's and master's degrees than do men.<br />- Programs already exist to help minorities and to help women with the issues they face, as do support groups.<br />- Higher rates of violence, substance abuse and suicide in men.<br /><br />Although Saltarelli's group seems questionable (both the name and his explanation for the group), is it unreasonable for men to create their own advocacy and support groups to help them address the issues that they face? <br /><br />Let's get back to the Girl Works rant. She refers to whites as "crackers". That *is* in fact racist. But there is nothing racist or homophobic in the NPR program. Is she projecting her own values? <br /><br />And how is a man a "selfish motherfucker" for wanting to address the issues that he sees before him (see the list above)? <br /><br />When women seek to address these issues is it ok to think of them as "selfish motherfuckers" too? <br /><br />The assumptions the Girl Works writer makes about gay and minority men (as well as lesbians) in relation to men's advocacy are... well, assumptions. Where is she getting them from? Certainly not the NPR program. <br /><br />Her rant is barely coherent. As I said before, it is immature, superficial and vulgar. I'll now add that it is also racist. It is mere blustering. All she has done is get angry over something she doesn't understand and blow off some steam. She has wasted an opportunity to learn something and to grow. She has drawn some attention to the subject however. For that I thank her.RobSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6237514746199867099.post-90835757238055508222009-06-13T14:20:52.399-04:002009-06-13T14:20:52.399-04:00I guess people can really see things in different ...I guess people can really see things in different ways. What I saw was an honest reaction (including vulgarity) to what was a very offensive concept parading as a "new idea" (i.e. men's liberation) without any historical context resulting in a one sided and I think very mean spirited dimunition of what has been a real struggle for equality. As a young woman and a minority I imagine that the - thegirlworks - is appreciative of some of the generational progress that she is both proud of and benefits from. The notion that some light weight non minority men can be so dismissive struck me as anger provoking (that was my reaction). Expressing anger is an art - was she caustic and biting yes but she also gave vent to how she felt - deep down - not superficially. I applaud that. As for funny - "its not about entitlement." "The hell its not I feel entitled to punch you in the face." is updated Groucho Marx - that ability to turn a statement that is obviously self serving around to show it for exactly what it is. As for smart - "lets focus on statistics for men of color, and see how much you white boys have to complain about then." - That's the point - you want to start a movement you better know what you're talking about - facts and information are what matters and these pampered and entitled guys presented neither. As for both smart and funny - "I rather like men - they make excellent snacks." That;s the way men talk about women all the time - therefore a perfect end point to emphasize the gender inequality that is the whole point of her rant.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16353954192152571397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6237514746199867099.post-90038190191625433942009-06-13T13:24:50.367-04:002009-06-13T13:24:50.367-04:00You find this writing funny and smart? All I see i...You find this writing funny and smart? All I see is an immature, superficial reaction to something she hasn't bothered to think about with any effort. The best she can do is lame penis jokes and vulgarity. <br /><br />Some men are real buffoons--agreed. And some women are feckless idiots. Thanks for pointing one out.RobSnoreply@blogger.com